Author Topic: Other High School Renovations  (Read 15095 times)

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Offline EX79NDN

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Other High School Renovations
« on: March 05, 2008, 09:26:00 PM »
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 05:20:25 PM by EX79NDN »

Offline VegasNDN

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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2008, 04:44:25 PM »
EX79NDN - the one thing you need to accept is that you can't stop change. In this case, I beleieve change is good. The only part of the school being torn down that I beleive is significant is the Planetarium. The new stadium will be a tremendous highlight for years to come. I truly believe it will increase participation in football, band, drill team, etc. I for one can't wait to come home to see a game this year.

Offline EX79NDN

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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2008, 05:43:32 PM »
I never said that I could STOP change. Un-necessary change is something I have a problem with. Changes/updates/repairs is one thing. Wasting tax payers money is another. Are they going to tear down and rebuild the stadium in 30 years. Probably not. What other buildings are they going to tear down every 30 years?
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The only part of the school being torn down that I beleive is significant is the Planetarium.
What was so significant about the Planetarium? How many students went on and made a career out of the Planetarium? Not saying the Planetarium was not educational, but I made a career and raised 3 kids out of what I learned in the Cosmetology building. How many students can say that about the Planetarium? Like I originally said, I was reluctant to post in the beginning, because (like in your posting) a new stadium is more important than the educational buildings that are being torn down. I will say again, in the 70's the stadium purposal was to build a new stadium on a large piece of property (I think it was on the corner of Merriman and the Hwy.). Made sense then and still makes sense to me now. Not crowding a large stadium on a small piece of property, butted up next to the school. What a showcase that big, new, beautiful stadium could have been and viewed better on a large piece of property. O what.....am I talking about change here!! ::)

Offline VegasNDN

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« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2008, 07:16:37 PM »
You are taking this way too personal. When I was speaking of accepting change, it was a third person comment. As for the Planetarium versus Cosmetology, I could care less. The significance is the fact that the Planetarium is a state of the art facility recognized across the state. The cost to building a new Planetarium versus the vocational classes is night and day. You make it seem like the school will never replace what is being torn down. I commend you on rasing a family on the tools you learned in the Cosemtology building. But on the flip side, I have been very blessed in business by the things I learned on the football & baseball fields as well as the classrooms of this school. All of which has changed.

But this thread is about the new stadium, not our personal opinions or emotional attachments to a certain piece of the school. That is what makes this community great, you have a ton of memories that make you who you are today. I live 2,000 miles away but read the local newspapers online and get on this silly message board every chance I get.

Offline pngfan93

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« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2008, 09:34:46 AM »
I sat in on many bond meetings dating back to 2004.  One aspect about the stadium that always stood firm is that relocating the stadium would have caused the bond to fail.  Many people wanted the stadium to sit on the "hallowed ground" of the 70's.  Others did not want the state of the art field house to be torn down after only 10 years of use.

You can't do anything without a bond. As a result, you are bound by what the voters will let you do.  I agree with you that the stadium should be at the corner of Merriman and Pure Atlantic.  However, we are in the vast minority.  There were three choices: 1) Do what we are doing now, 2) Do nothing to an aging structure, or 3) Attempt to move the stadium and defeat the entire bond.

As for cosmetology, I have heard of no plans to cancel the program.  It i being moved to the vocational area of the new building.  They are getting new facilities out of this.  Th only original part of the building that will be left standing after the bond is the auditorium.  Engineers stated that the structural integrity of the auditorium should keep it viable for the next 50 years.  As a result, it is being heavily renovated.

PNGISD is not gaining new students because of the facilities (or lack of).  People drive through the district, and then they decide to move to Lumberton and Bridge City.  The district had do move forward.

Offline EX79NDN

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« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2008, 12:13:00 PM »
My high school years were during the late 70's. So I understand the feels when you say "hallowed ground". Maybe that is where some of my feelings, for the buildings, come from today. I have read this board (& the old one) for a long time before joining and saying anything. I do not know if it is just me, but the pride for PNG, instilled in us in the 70's was unreal. Not saying or taking away from alumni/students to come after that. I am sure their pride in PNG is also just as strong. But I can remember having a pop test (that counted as an actual test grade) on the school song and fight song. For some reason younger alumni could not even tell you the first verse to either song, including my own daughter when she went to PNG. Back then the proud, honor and tradition seems like it was more structured and disciplined. So because of that, the buildings and grounds became almost like sacred grounds. I think back then, if it came down to it a student would have almost died for their school. I know it might sound strange and some what twisted to the younger generation/alumni, but true. Ask an old alumni, say someone that graduated 25, 30 or more years back if they still know the words to the school and/or fight song for PNG. Most could pretty much sing it for you, after being out of school all these years.
Now as far as change, what a beautiful way to show off  PNG's pride and spirit than to have built the stadium on the corner of Merriman & Pure Atlantic for everyone to see as you come into PN. But like you said, to late now and you have to work with what you have. You said,
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The only original part of the building that will be left standing after the bond is the auditorium.
what about the old boys gym? Now that is some really sacred ground. 
« Last Edit: March 07, 2008, 06:53:27 PM by EX79NDN »

Offline pngfan93

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« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2008, 05:29:02 PM »
The old boys gym will be demolished and replaced with a dual court gym.



Look at the right hand side of this drawing and you will see the set up of the replacement gym.



Here is another drawing of the finished high school:

« Last Edit: March 07, 2008, 05:31:41 PM by pngfan93 »

Offline PNG Proud

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« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2008, 09:35:23 PM »
Personally. I LOVE the design above.    I graduated 30 yrs. ago (76') and I know all about "hallowed grounds".  But at the same time, I'm a bit jealous when I drive through little Podunk Holler towns , Like Montgomery, and see these new schools and stadiums and, although I know some of our tax dollars paid for it (Robin Hood), I'd like to see our own community enjoy some of these nice schools too.   Our kids deserve it as much as the next town's.  I mean, drive down to Crystal Beach and check out their school....AWESOME!    Yet, we still have the same shell that was built 50 yrs. ago.

So what if it cost me a few hundred dollars a year.  That's no more than a few nights out to dinner.  Let those kids learn in a nice facility and build memories that will stay with them forever.  I know I cherish the times I had at PNG.  I want this to be good times for them as it was for me.

BTW, I'm all for the Cosmotology Program too!
Go Indians!!!

Offline PNG NDN Fan

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« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2008, 05:56:34 PM »
Speaking of the old boys gym, I think during the past renovations etc they managed to save the mural on the gym wall ('85 class gift).  Sure hope they can save it some way.

Offline NDN X

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« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2008, 08:42:35 AM »
I was wondering about that as well as the Cherokee seal (which may have already been moved?)  That is a part of the school that needs to be preserved.
Once an Indian....always an Indian!

Offline pngfan93

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« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2008, 11:26:13 AM »
The  Cherokee Seal may be in the "new" gym.  I've only been in there once, so I don't really remember.  I'm sure their not going to get rid of it.  If the ACLU comes calling, it is the district's defense to keep the mascot.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2008, 09:34:13 PM by pngfan93 »

Offline EX79NDN

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Re: Other High School Renovations
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2008, 01:34:30 PM »

Offline pngfan93

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Re: Other High School Renovations
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2008, 08:58:59 PM »
CATE stands for Career And Technology Education.  This used to be referred to as Vocational Education, or Voc Ed.

The competition gym will still be the competition gym.  The plan is not to use the new gym as competition.  I don't know that it will even have a competition floor.  The need for two basketball courts resides in the fact that they are losing a basketball court in the demolition of the old girls' gym.  This design means that they do not lose court space.  I know that one of the designs of the new gym was that it could be opened up into one large room.  I don't know if that made it all the way to the drawing board or not, but that would give the facility many more uses than just Phys Ed.

As far as the B-Wing addition goes, it was the single worst part of the last bond, although I'd argue that all work done to the high school except for the field house was the "worst part of the bond."  The addition was built on to the front of the old B-wing.  It has no restroom facilities, and is sitting on old foundation.  There were many concerns about the addition once the old wing was removed.  In fact, there were plans drawn up to preserve that part of the building, but none were feasible.  The main problem with the B wing addition dealt with the fact that no engineer could assure the district that the wing would retain its structural integrity after the demolition of the old wing.  There is no "back wall" on the building -- it is simply plopped in front of the old wing.  As I mentioned before, there were no restroom facilities in the wing.  Also, as I mentioned earlier, the wing is sitting on old foundation.  There are concerns that the wing is settling, and that it would not retain its structural integrity for long, even if it survived the demolition.  If that were to happen, there would be no money to deal with the problem.  The district would have to just shut the wing down and be without several classrooms.  We needed to take care of the issue while there was money available.

Realize that, because of the problems with the last bond, this bond was picked over with a fine tooth comb.  Industry payed engineers to come in an look at every facility in the district to see what had to be done.  All they had to do to sink the bond was to release a statement to the press that passage of the bond would force them to lay off several workers, and the bond would have failed immediately.  Industry is footing the bill for 80% of this bond.  They made sure that they are getting the best bang for the buck out of this bond.  This bond took care of everything but the elementarys.  They will be rebuilt in 5 to 10 years.

As far as downtown PA to Jefferson City to Central Mall, that is simply business men following the trends of the populace.  I'm not sure how long it has been since you have been to down town PA, or even to Jefferson City, but I don't rest easy when I am in those places. I go when I have to (or when there are many people around like Mardi Gras).  Shopping is something I wold not go there for.  I would drive to Beaumont instead.  Central Mall is dying.  Look for something else to take its place within the next 20 years.  This is how society works.  Someone comes into an area and pioneers it.  People follow, and the area grows.  For a while, the area maintains a "family environment."  Eventually, crime goes up and people move out to another pioneered area.  Its a cycle.  People moved into Houston, moved out to the belt way, and are now moving back inside the loop.  Society moves.  It is happening to Port Neches, Groves, and Nederland.  PN-G and Nederland will eventually become the next Memorial.  Groves is seeing the most significant change as PA bleeds over.  Nederland is building too many apartments for it own good, and yes even the "great" Port Neches is seeing some spillover.  I know people who have already left, and others (including me) who are keeping a watchful eye on things.  As PN-G and Nederland took the place of TJ, so will Hardin Jefferson, Bridge City, Orangefield, and Lumberton take their place.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2008, 09:33:16 PM by pngfan93 »

Offline EX79NDN

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Re: Other High School Renovations
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2008, 07:39:48 PM »
Thanks pngfan93 for answering my questions and clearing things up for me. I understand and agree with a lot of what you have said. I go down there quite often. I still have family that live in the Groves (my mother and my sister). My sister still has a daughter in high school down there. But she (my sister) has told me some really sad stories on how bad PNG is getting. She has told me that the school is not like it use to be. Expecially since TJ changed to Memorial and PNG got the spill over. My mother is 76 yrs. old and my sister lives across the street from her in Groves. So I also understand the part you said about how Groves is feeling the effects. My sister just told me this weekend, as soon as my mother is ready to move, she will be out of Groves. She has also swore that none of her grandchildren will ever go to PNG. Not that she does not love PNG and the memories she/we have there. I really hate to hear that but I know that ever time I have gone to a PNG function recently, I have a problem getting use to the changes and what I see. Some of the changes can not be helped. I really hate to see the day that PNG becomes another TJ or Memorial. I guess when it comes to that time, I would rather see the name and mascot change, somewhat like the TJ/Memorial issue, than to see the homor, pride and traditions of PNG ruined.

Offline akifan94

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Re: Other High School Renovations
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2008, 11:57:16 AM »
CATE stands for Career And Technology Education.  This used to be referred to as Vocational Education, or Voc Ed.

The competition gym will still be the competition gym.  The plan is not to use the new gym as competition.  I don't know that it will even have a competition floor.  The need for two basketball courts resides in the fact that they are losing a basketball court in the demolition of the old girls' gym.  This design means that they do not lose court space.  I know that one of the designs of the new gym was that it could be opened up into one large room.  I don't know if that made it all the way to the drawing board or not, but that would give the facility many more uses than just Phys Ed.

As far as the B-Wing addition goes, it was the single worst part of the last bond, although I'd argue that all work done to the high school except for the field house was the "worst part of the bond."  The addition was built on to the front of the old B-wing.  It has no restroom facilities, and is sitting on old foundation.  There were many concerns about the addition once the old wing was removed.  In fact, there were plans drawn up to preserve that part of the building, but none were feasible.  The main problem with the B wing addition dealt with the fact that no engineer could assure the district that the wing would retain its structural integrity after the demolition of the old wing.  There is no "back wall" on the building -- it is simply plopped in front of the old wing.  As I mentioned before, there were no restroom facilities in the wing.  Also, as I mentioned earlier, the wing is sitting on old foundation.  There are concerns that the wing is settling, and that it would not retain its structural integrity for long, even if it survived the demolition.  If that were to happen, there would be no money to deal with the problem.  The district would have to just shut the wing down and be without several classrooms.  We needed to take care of the issue while there was money available.

Realize that, because of the problems with the last bond, this bond was picked over with a fine tooth comb.  Industry payed engineers to come in an look at every facility in the district to see what had to be done.  All they had to do to sink the bond was to release a statement to the press that passage of the bond would force them to lay off several workers, and the bond would have failed immediately.  Industry is footing the bill for 80% of this bond.  They made sure that they are getting the best bang for the buck out of this bond.  This bond took care of everything but the elementarys.  They will be rebuilt in 5 to 10 years.

As far as downtown PA to Jefferson City to Central Mall, that is simply business men following the trends of the populace.  I'm not sure how long it has been since you have been to down town PA, or even to Jefferson City, but I don't rest easy when I am in those places. I go when I have to (or when there are many people around like Mardi Gras).  Shopping is something I wold not go there for.  I would drive to Beaumont instead.  Central Mall is dying.  Look for something else to take its place within the next 20 years.  This is how society works.  Someone comes into an area and pioneers it.  People follow, and the area grows.  For a while, the area maintains a "family environment."  Eventually, crime goes up and people move out to another pioneered area.  Its a cycle.  People moved into Houston, moved out to the belt way, and are now moving back inside the loop.  Society moves.  It is happening to Port Neches, Groves, and Nederland.  PN-G and Nederland will eventually become the next Memorial.  Groves is seeing the most significant change as PA bleeds over.  Nederland is building too many apartments for it own good, and yes even the "great" Port Neches is seeing some spillover.  I know people who have already left, and others (including me) who are keeping a watchful eye on things.  As PN-G and Nederland took the place of TJ, so will Hardin Jefferson, Bridge City, Orangefield, and Lumberton take their place.

I would have already moved to Bridge City if my wife would allow it. My neighborhood is going to be surrounded by low income apartments within the next 5 years. I will have no home value to speak of. It sucks, but it is going to happen.

Offline lu cards

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Re: Other High School Renovations
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2008, 04:27:27 PM »
i must be blind because when i drive around port neches all i see is new homes being built.i do have some issues with groves because there letting to many multi family structures be built.go ahead and move to bridge city there building a huge low income housing project just outside the city limits.not to many places left to run to.lumberton will have there turn in 10 years.the district is still great and when the new memorial is finshed the migration will reserve.port neches is land locked all your going to see is old homes being torn down and new homes go up.groves needs to step up and quit trying to be nederland(home of the 8-plex).i got friends in bc and lumberton and the grass is not any greener.they have all the same issues as png and maybe worse.

Offline akifan94

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Re: Other High School Renovations
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2008, 07:20:27 AM »
i must be blind because when i drive around port neches all i see is new homes being built.i do have some issues with groves because there letting to many multi family structures be built.go ahead and move to bridge city there building a huge low income housing project just outside the city limits.not to many places left to run to.lumberton will have there turn in 10 years.the district is still great and when the new memorial is finshed the migration will reserve.port neches is land locked all your going to see is old homes being torn down and new homes go up.groves needs to step up and quit trying to be nederland(home of the 8-plex).i got friends in bc and lumberton and the grass is not any greener.they have all the same issues as png and maybe worse.

I live in Port Arthur (PNGISD). Drive around my neighborhood and there is nothing but apartments and now there is a big sign by Divot's announcing a proposed housing project. Where is this housing project in BC being built? The only thing appealing about BC to me is that it is close to my work and I can by a few acres out on 1442 and not have to worry about what is being built 1/2 mile from my house (maybe). Plus, my two good friends live there and they have kids near the same age as my daughter. I really do not want to move. It is a matter of where do I feel safe. I would love to move over to River Park, but I refuse to pay the prices of those lots. The land being developed on Merrimam is going to be even more overpriced from what I heard (67,000 for a tiny lot - 170,000 for the largest). My wife went to TJ. I will not let my daughters come up through school in a piss poor learning enviroment like that. While it is not there yet, all the signs point to it.

Offline lu cards

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Re: Other High School Renovations
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2008, 12:20:33 PM »
the housing by divots is supposed to be upscale.best option is to buy an existing home an tear it down.the high prices of land is good for png.theres another tract on merriam that is being developed that is in he 40k range.

Offline akifan94

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Re: Other High School Renovations
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2008, 12:27:27 PM »
I see where the apartments are being built in Bridge City past the airport. Is that low income? It is in BCISD if so. That second tract of land is going to be very small lots from what I understand. Garden type homes. Anyone know anything about the River Front development and how it might affect land values on that side of town?

Offline lu cards

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Re: Other High School Renovations
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2008, 01:33:35 PM »
port neches just hired the nederland city manager and is reason for him wanting to come to pn is the river front potential.yes, the city of bridge city and residents threw a fit when the company approached them so they built it outside the city limits(bcisd).

Offline PNG NDN Fan

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Re: Other High School Renovations
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2008, 06:01:39 PM »
the housing by divots is supposed to be upscale.best option is to buy an existing home an tear it down.the high prices of land is good for png.theres another tract on merriam that is being developed that is in he 40k range.

I thought I heard somewhere that Divots was going to be the site of the new Carver Terrace, but that could be completely off the mark.  Regardless, I checked the school district zone map and  Divots is in PAISD, not PNGISD.

It's interesting to see new homes going up in the middle of old ones in PNGISD, like a house by house gentrification.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2008, 07:20:01 PM by PNG NDN Fan »

Offline IndianFan

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Re: Other High School Renovations
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2008, 07:11:25 PM »
That's a definite indication that a lot of people still believe in the quality of life and education in PNGISD!
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Offline akifan94

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Re: Other High School Renovations
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2008, 08:25:43 PM »
I am curious as to who would rent upscale housing in PAISD.

Offline PNG NDN Fan

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Re: Other High School Renovations
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2008, 09:11:43 PM »
Well, there is one apartment complex PA (Central Mall Area) that I know very well that has nice amenities, it is the nicest in PA.  Most of the tenants there are US Coast Guard, so I'm not sure if the government covers all or part of their rent.  They make great neighbors though. 

The others are single professionals like engineers, nurses, and even doctors that are just starting out in the area (or perhaps work here during the week and maintain a residence elsewhere.)  Some are retired people that don't want to bother with the upkeep of a home. There are not many families with school age kids there, and the ones that I am aware of send their kids to private school.

As far as renting upscale single family homes, I don't see that happening in PAISD, but there may be some exceptions.




Offline akifan94

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Re: Other High School Renovations
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2008, 07:08:02 AM »
Well, there is one apartment complex PA (Central Mall Area) that I know very well that has nice amenities, it is the nicest in PA.  Most of the tenants there are US Coast Guard, so I'm not sure if the government covers all or part of their rent.  They make great neighbors though. 

The others are single professionals like engineers, nurses, and even doctors that are just starting out in the area (or perhaps work here during the week and maintain a residence elsewhere.)  Some are retired people that don't want to bother with the upkeep of a home. There are not many families with school age kids there, and the ones that I am aware of send their kids to private school.

As far as renting upscale single family homes, I don't see that happening in PAISD, but there may be some exceptions.





Makes sense.